Transcript for "What's Working Now in Gym Marketing": Alright. Hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome to, Daxko exercises partnership with Business for Unicorns. What's working now, in gym marketing. So, if you're just joining us, I love to get to know you and the rest of the audience. So drop in our chat, you know, where you're from, what the name of your business is, what type of training you are, and how long you've been in business. We'd love to welcome you. Mark will be joining us here in just a few minutes, and, we're so pumped and so excited for you all to be here. Alright. Very good. Well, we're we're gonna give Mark just another minute, but we are really pumped. I see a bunch of people joining in. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. There he is. There's the esteemed man of the hour. Welcome, Mark. How are you doing today? Oh, I think your audio is might be you might be muted. Oh, don't hear you yet. K. Can you hear me now? There you go. Yes. Welcome, Mark. How are you? Good. I'm gonna try to turn on now my good mic if we can make that work, which weird is being finicky. But what I was saying was I'm very good because thanks to I just got my seventy fifth cup of coffee today. So for everyone here, great to have you here. I will try not to fly into the sky or speak too quickly. Okay. Let me see if I can get on the good mic. That'll be even better. Okay. Check. Check. Check. You're just great. Check. Check. You can hear me now. Yep. Alright. I think I had the sure mic sometimes gets muted. Great. I'm in my team. Well, Well, I know, was just yep. Sorry, Mark. I was just telling the audience, if if you guys will post, in the q and a section, if you post in there where your gym name is, where you guys are located, what type of training you do, and how long you've been open, we'd love to welcome you to the, the show today. So with that, we have a great guest today, Mark Fisher from Business for Unicorns. And, Mark, go ahead and take it away. Alright, everyone. I wanna thank you all for being here. Today's top topic is what's working now. So I'm very excited about it. I think it's a very timely, timely topic because, I have some good news and I have some bad news. So what I'd love for you to do is if you'd be so kind, I'd love for you to go into, the messages, maybe the q and a, and let me know if you want the good news or the bad news first. And based on what you say, like a magician, I will adapt what I say next. I know Bruce Forrester is here. I hung out last weekend, so he he and Alex Odad probably know what's gonna come here. Good news or bad news first? Let me know what you'd like, and I'll let you know. Alright. Well, you know Alright. A lot of bad news. Okay. This is normal. I know that's the that kind of crowd, but I have good news and bad news. So, let's begin here. So the bad news is this. I think, without being overly hyperbolic, down the next twelve to eighteen months, I I sincerely think we might see a spike of gym closures. And the reason is the digital lead generation landscape has really started to change. We're gonna be talking more specifically today about how. But suffice to say, I think the headwinds, that are coming, I think if gyms are not on strong foundations, if they are not applying some of these changes I suggest we make today, I I really think there's a chance they're gonna get knocked out. And even gyms that are doing very well and are profitable are gonna see some downward pressure on that profitability. But, you know, listen, the good news is that human psychology has not changed. The principles of sales and marketing aren't changing. And to the extent that I am personally updating what I'm doing at my gym or suggesting that the clients I work with make changes, to be clear, we're not, like, flipping over the game board. Right? So don't worry about that. However, I do think we're gonna have to allocate our time and our energy money differently. The things that worked 2023, even 2024 are not working now. And the good news is if your gym that is already doing great, if you apply the things I'm talking about today, you are likely gonna put more distance between yourself and your competitors. And, again, I gotta say for gyms that aren't shaker foundation, I really think, the things I'm talking about today must be heated and we must take action on them if we're going to survive. Now that is a very heavy drop in there, conversation here. So you might be like, who's this guy? So some of you know me, but for for those that don't, I'm Mark. Hello. It's nice to meet you. My name is Mark Fisher. I am probably most infamous in some circles for many years in New York City running a very strange gym called Mark Fisher Fitness. Out of curiosity, say yes in the chat box if you've heard of Mark Fisher Fitness. For those that haven't, it was a weird a weird gym. So for context, I built it for my friends that were members of New York City's Broadway community, but I'm also very deep serious nerds. The tagline is ridiculous humans, serious fitness. And, we didn't call our members clients because I was uninspiring. We called them ninjas. And the mascot was the unicorn, and we didn't call it a gym. It was a chant at Ninja Clubhouse of glory and dreams. So it's like a very colorful, very strange, glittery business, and also one that had some unusual results. So just purely for context, that gym grossed nearly $34,000,000 in the thirteen years I ran it. We had tons of local and national media. We were on the Inc five hundred. It's one of the fastest growing companies in America. We were in men's health. We did a TEDx talk on culture. It was amazing. I loved it. A little less than two years ago, my business partner, Mike, and I decided our journey was complete. We sold to a longtime trainer and a longtime gym business coaching client that owned another gym in Brooklyn. So that gym is still alive, but thankfully for me, because it'd be weird, it's no longer called Mark Fisher Fitness. These days, I do gym business stuff all day long. My current company is business for unicorns, and our mission is to help gym owners build a gym and a life that they love. Not gonna talk a ton about business for unicorns today, because I wanna focus on being valuable to you. So if anybody's nervous, this is one of those talks where I'm just gonna seed the whole thing with a bunch of, rags to riches stories of my my clients that were destitute in their car. Now they're zillionaires. I'm not doing that. The you're smart people. You can check out our testimonies on our website if you want. But in a minute, I will just tell you a very high level of what we do in case that is of interest to anybody on this call. Also relevant, I still own a gym. So to be clear, I not only owned the weird unicorn gym, I own a franchise personal training gym, Allied Personal Training. It's in New Jersey. It's in Normie brand. It's a small lean staff, a small square footprint similar to the gyms that many of you run, and I also have a small ownership stake into tech startups that service fitness businesses. So I do a lot of stuff. Again, I'll say at a high level just because I know some of you might be interested in knowing. I know some of you in the call do one or both of these services. Great to have you here, by the way. There's really two things we do when we work with gym owners. Okay? We have a soups to nuts biz ops coaching program or premier mentorship program called the Unicorn Society, and that includes one on one coaching with a gym owner expert coach, access to 70 ish done for you playbooks and SOPs that you can copy paste, customize, and bolt into your business, daily office hours for on demand support, in person retreats, weekly live trainings, all the things. And this is a great solution if you sometimes feel overwhelmed and you just want someone to tell you what to do in what order to do it, and not make you do what they want, but give you the system to sort of customize it for your business. The other thing we offer is brand new ish, is good if you just want more leads and more clients. So this is not about team development or leases or facility management or financial controls. It's just about getting more leads and more clients. It's very affordable. It's $99 a month, and it includes automated meta ads as well as organic lead generation, which we'll talk about today, sales follow-up, sales coaching, and also includes office hours. That's all I'm gonna say about this today. So if you wanna find out more, I'm gonna model one of the principles I'll talk about today and try to ethically bribe you. If if this seems like this could make sense now or in the future, if you book a call by end of day Saturday, you don't need to you don't need to do the call by end of day Saturday because you might be watching the video later. But if the call is booked by end of day Saturday, September 26, you tell them they've you found them through the Daxko exercise and that you're my friend. They'll give you the first month absolutely free with no long term commitment. And that is what I got to say about that. Now I wanna know a little bit more about you. So I'd love for you to into the chat box, if you could write, please let me know, your location. I know the people here early probably, shared some of this. I also wanna know what type of fitness business you own. You could also write employee. I know I have some employees here too, which happy to have you here. And I'd love to know what your current lead sources are. So let me just give you a minute here. I'd love to know a little bit more about where you're located. Tell me a little more about your business and what your current lead sources are. As promised today, we're gonna cover the five, I think, are absolutely mission critical. I just kinda wanna understand where we're at right now. So I'll give you a minute here just to type in some things. Okay. Let's see here. Mark, we had a we had a slight technical difficulty, so the chat is enabled. People just need to. refresh click refresh if they wanna use it. So Thank you so much. they. don't. see seeing some things come on in here too. K. So I'm seeing. some social medias, referral programs. Referrals. Yep. Primarily focused on SEO. AO. Yep. Love that, David. We'll be talking about that today. Word-of-mouth, the Google Ads. Mhmm. Yeah. Word-of-mouth. Okay. So it looks like word-of-mouth. Okay. So word-of-mouth. Fantastic. We absolutely want word-of-mouth. In fact, we will be talking a little about today about how to hopefully drive that a little bit more intentionally. But but the the shape of life as a gym owner is for most of us. Right? And me too. We open up our gym and usually have some seed clients. And you can often if the product is good enough, you can grow to a certain point without doing a lot of marketing per se because your clients will just bring some people in and you tend to have good retention. And that's fantastic, and that's a really good sign. But I think if we want a business has legs over the long term, we need to learn how to be a little bit more intentional to drive leads on a weekly and monthly basis. And as it happens, that's we're talking about today. So I like to think of two big kind of buckets of tools and systems. K. So there's two understand this. There's two paths to your gym getting in touch with prospects. Sometimes, the prospect is looking for gyms. I call this a fishing net because the prospect fishes are swimming in the sea and they're looking, oh, boy, happy days. They're looking for a solution like yours. Right? There's only two main ways they're gonna do this, but the key thing is if they're looking for your solution, they wanna you wanna definitely make sure you get found, number one. And then number two, you wanna get name, number, and email. You wanna start the conversation. So this is sometimes called high intent or or inbound leads, and this is awesome. We definitely wanna be leveraged this. I saw some of you wrote SEO and AEO in there. That's fantastic. The trick of it is, although these are are very valuable leads because they're high intent and they'll tend to move quickly towards a trial or membership, The problem is in a given geographically constrained market, there's only gonna be so many people actively looking for our solution a given week or given a month. So if we wanna scale to a hundred, hundred fifty, I mean, some of the gyms we work with have hundreds of members, sometimes six, seven, 10 locations. At some point, if you really wanna grow more, we we do have to drive we do have to go out there and find prospects that are not actively looking for us. So I tend to think of this as a fishing poles. Okay? This is where the gym is looking for prospects. So this is where if some of your strategy and systems catch the people looking for your solution, we need some tools, some strategies where you're casting your line into the sea with a sufficiently learning bait that you get a name, number, and email so you can start the conversation. Now notably, these are not as high intent leads. Okay? Important to understand for expectations. Not all of these prospects are gonna quickly move through the membership. But if you wanna do this for three years, five years, ten years, twenty years, this is how you build a business by building an audience of people that are ostensibly interested in what you have to offer. K? So we're gonna loop around each of these now. So if you'd be so kind, go in the chat box for me, maybe refresh if you missed Mike's suggestion before. If you're looking for a plumber in your local market, how do you find a plumber? There's only two things you do. This is not a a trick question, by the way. I'm not gonna make you look silly. So if you'd be so kind, go ahead. Give it a click here. Yep. My god. It says Google. Kevin says Google. Yeah. Look at unicorn sign in the house. Google. Google Maps reviews. Okay. Yep. Seeing a lot of Google. Yep. So that's one. What's the other thing you do? There's another thing that you might do if you're looking for a plumber. Man, a plumber maybe you wouldn't always do the ask community. Thank you, Dee. Okay. So those are the two things we do. Right? So interestingly enough, I would also note I kinda love everybody here said Google, but I think probably what we mean is synonymous with, like, online search, which now is is very interesting, everyone. Out of curiosity, has anyone here heard of AI? So things are interesting now because now you have Google. You might stumble to Google AI mode. You have Google Maps. You have ChatGPT. You have Claude. And if you wanna get weird, Apple Maps, Bing, Perplexity. Right? So there's all these different platforms, and they're pretty similar, but they're slightly different. But that's one way that the people find go searching. And then the other option, of course, is referrals. Okay? I'm gonna bucket referrals for now. We're gonna come back to it a little bit later in our conversation when I talk about referral strategies. But for now, I'll just say there's actually a phishing net referral strategy. What your clients say when friends ask about their gym and a referral phishing poll. How do you get your clients to go out and talk to their friends? Okay? So hold that thought. We'll come there soon. But for right now, I wanna focus on online search. Now there's a lot I wanna say about this. I'm sad because I don't got it. We don't have all day here. So I gotta go quick. But organic search requires manage your digital home. So this is really the first of the five strategies to grow your gym in 2026. You have to manage your digital homes. So there's a lot of different places now that people find the digital homes. But the good news for us is there's really, like, three places you gotta be. You have your website, Google My Business, and Instagram profile. These are each gonna be optimized slight different ways for two things. He says it again for discoverability. So if your prospect is looking for a solution like yours, we oh, boy. We want them to find you. And two, conversion. Can I get name, number, and email? Because if if they find you, but you don't if you don't get them, it's not a very good fishing net. Right? You wanna get name, number, and email. So, again, a ton I could say, but a few things at a very high level. The first I would note is showing up in digital search has some technical requirements. That's why it's usually wise not to build your own website. You're probably gonna wanna work with a company like Daxko exercise that does this all day long every day. Because even if you can vibe code and unclawed, it's gonna be hard to compete with a company doing all day long every day. There's also using Claude. Okay? So the technical build will matter. I also want to point out this is a very, very important thing for us. In all of our marketing, if you confuse, you lose. So let's say, okay. We've managed SEO. We've managed AEO. We show up. They go to the website. It needs to be immediately clear exactly the kind of person you help, the kinds of results you create, and exactly what they should do next. This might be formulated like, we help busy professionals over 35 lose weight, get stronger, and feel ten years younger. Book a free intro. So, usually, there's like an identity call out of some kind. There is some benefits and you wanna use the words the prospects use in their heads. Right? I often see this done badly with love. I look at the gym and it's like some kind of jargony thing, but it's not the word the prospects using in their head at night. And then exactly what to do next. Seth Godin would call this the big red fez. So named because we want a big fat button in the middle of the screen above the fold and got a scroll. Ain't nobody got time for scrolling. We're all too busy. It's too busy here in 2026. So usually, you wanna buy in the center and the top right. Okay? The call to action, you decide. Right? Book a free intro, claim a free class, claim your two weeks for $99, talk to a coach. Right? We we can debate different approaches there. But the core thing is it is immediately clear who you help, the results you create, and what to do next. Now if I'll scroll down for a moment to the Instagram profile, I think Instagram profiles are best best thought of as a secondary website. Hot off the presses, this is more true than ever a lot of you might know as of, I think, six weeks, maybe two months ago. Instagram captions now show up in Google search. That's new. That wasn't the case before. So, we're not specifically talking about SEO per se, but I just wanna name that as yet another reason why we wanna be on Instagram. Having said that, I think the most important thing for Instagram without getting to the weeds about my contrarian take about posting too much on Instagram, The profile itself is a secondary website. So people are usually gonna go look at Instagram because they wanna see more images. So we need to be posting enough. It looks like the lights are on, and we want a profile that mirrors the website. I recommend should be literally the same. Right? You don't want different positioning, different brand, different places. You say the same things over and over. If you confuse, you lose. So it's who you help, results you create, what to do next, which is the link at the top of the profile. So going back to Google by business for one second because I just skipped over that. Google My Business is important again for research for the clients because their prospects rather because they're gonna wanna see the reviews. Do you have a lot of reviews or the recent reviews? And And you know who else will wanna see the same thing? Google and the AI bots. Right? They will tend to read a lot of their views, decide if they're gonna offer you as an answer when someone in your market is searching for a solution like yours. So ideally, we have a system to regularly get reviews on an ongoing basis. Another pro tip here about Google business my business in general, we or Google business profiles the case may be, we really wanna make sure we're updating this at least once per week. So a simple way to do that is post something from Instagram, a picture, and a caption on your Google business profile to tell Google I'm awake and alive. Okay? The last thing I'm gonna tell you about all three of these. Can I give you just one more tip here? You wanna show pictures, images, case studies, stories, testimonials, it's very important, of clients that look aspirational and relatable. When your prospects look at these homes, they wanna see images, stories, case studies when they're skimming through of clients that look aspirational, which is to say, I want what they're having. Right? Not necessarily look like them, but but sometimes, I wanna I want their joie de vivre and relatable. I could see myself there. I think I would I would fit in a place like that that looks accessible to me. It looks like I would fit in there. Okay? So not wrong to have you or your story, your coaches, or or your space. I think that's fine. You want a video walk through. It's fine. But, really, people care about themselves. So you want clients that look aspirational and relatable. Briefly, I'll say paid search can improve your discoverability. So more of the people looking for you get found. This does work in some markets. Sometimes it doesn't make sense because there's just not enough lead flow. And usually the costs are not only more expensive, which is okay because they're higher intent leads, but they're more expensive because now you're paying a vendor x amount and you're only getting a few leads per month. I think this can absolutely work in some markets. You just have to do the math to understand the total cost of acquisition, but this can make sense. Okay. What about AI? You might be asking, what about AI? Why isn't Mark talking about AI? He likes AI. Well, again, a lot I could say about AI. For the purposes of today, I just wanna again reiterate that the technical build of the website really matters. Things like schema validated markups and that stuff. But remember, I got good news. The technical stuff, that's our friends at exercise. Right? That's what exercise is gonna handle that for you. That's not something really we wanna be dealing with. Or you can ask them, hey. What are we doing to update the website? What else should I be doing as far as, like, the the content I give you or the the words we're putting on the website? Because some of the website, the developer can own, but you still have to own some, but the technical stuff is gonna be largely them. I think the two big places that are really gonna change, just as a quick side note, are gonna be conversion and the software capodas themselves. I say conversion, which is not generation. That's we're talking about lead generation today. Conversion because the chatbots are here. Chatbots are here. I've been given a version of this talk for a long time, and for a while, I was like, they're coming eventually, and it was like, they're coming soon. This is the first one where I'm like, yeah. They're here. The chat the chatbots are here. They're actually gonna generally be better than most of your employees, as well as they can respond quicker. The voice chatbots are not here yet and remains to be seen how long that will take because that's an uncanny valley that could be quite off putting. If you've ever called your dermatologist to get a session and you're just have to wade through an annoying AI chatbot. But I think conversion is gonna be impacted. I also would note that, again, we are gonna have to look to reputable companies like Dasko exercise. They're the ones that are large and gonna superpowers. Right? It's not to say that there's no place for us to do some kind of internal app building. We're doing a lot of that right now in both of my companies. So there is utility there, but for the most part, we're gonna rely on our vendors to build faster and give us new capabilities that are only available to them now because of their utility of AI. So I got for AI today. If you wanna find out more, you go to gymownersaiplaybook.com. This is a free training I did in February. I gotta be really honest with you. It's a little long in the tooth already because that was, like, a million years ago as far as AI goes. But I still think it's a good overview of some principles for how we might think about this. But I I again, I've gotta be real to you in the past really, like, six weeks. The number of of use cases I've seen for things like cloud Chrome extension, and it's it's getting nuts out there. So, but if you want an understanding of the principles and where I see AI go wrong, you can check that out. Okay. So now let's go to the phishing polls. Jim's looking for prospects. So these are the three that I'm gonna pick because if I'm working with the average gym owner in the average market with the average skill set and resources, these three are gonna tend to have the highest hit rate. Are they what you should do? No. No. No. No. You're not the average gym or the average market. There's a lot of other fishing poles we might do when we as the gym are looking for prospects, and you might wanna consider them. Maybe you sub in one or two or three, maybe sub out one or two in a vacuum. The reason I pick those first three is typically I'm gonna get the highest hit rate and the best return for time, energy, and money invested. And if you wanna find more, if you don't have this yet, gymmarketingsecretsbook.com. Even if you have it, but you haven't gotten the updated one, which I just updated a couple, not yeah. A couple months ago, I guess. So we launched this in the summer. Reluctantly, I'm gonna have to probably update this every year now. Reality. Thanks a lot. Because things are always changing, unfortunately, and particularly the AI and the algorithm changes. I have meaningfully adjusted some of my best practice suggestions. So if you don't get this, it's completely free. Jim Mark and secretsbook.com. But before we get into those fishing poles, okay, so let's orient ourselves. I promised you five things. Right? First, we got manage the digital homes. Right? Make sure you get found. I promise I'm gonna talk about referral offers, meta ads, and local business partnerships. The fifth and most important one is one that some of you will feel queasy about. And this is the most important thing I'm gonna tell you. So I really want zoom in on me because of all the things I'm gonna say today. This is a thing that most gym owners do not do, and it is the fastest way for you to have more clients and drive more leads and grow your business this week. Okay? But before I get into this strategy, some of you aren't gonna like to do it because it's gonna feel like I'm being annoying. I'm being annoying. And I get that. So, you know, just give you a quick story about, like, my background that I think has made me particularly willing to be, tenacious, let's say. K. So that's a picture in New York City. When I moved to New York, when I was a young Mark Fisher fitness, moved to New York. It's a summer two thousand two. It's August, and I ain't got no JOB. I wanna pursue my career as an actor, so I moved to New York. I'm living in a six four walk up in Southern Harlem. It's a sweltering, sticky, hot August. I got no furniture. I have 3,000 credit card debt. I have $20,000 in student loans for my bachelor of fine arts in musical theater, and I can't get a job. And I have to get a job because my mom and dad, rest in peace, we ain't got no money. I gotta figure this out. Okay? So I have to get my my rent, and, no one will hire me. It's the summer after nine one one. Can't get a job in a restaurant. Probably not help my cause. I look like I'm 14 years old. So I finally get a job selling hair salon promotions on the street. So I kid you not, I go to a salon on the Upper East Side, with quite the consortium of eccentric New Yorkers that thought, this is an acceptable way to make a living. And we would we would all hobble over together like a gaggle of weirdos, and I'd stop random women in the street. I'd say, excuse me, miss. Excuse me. I have a question about your hair. Oh oh, excuse me, miss. And that was how I tried to make my living. First week, it didn't go great. You know why? Because it's awkward. It's very weird. Okay? So when I think about the type of, like, follow-up and tenacity we need for gyms, feels like much less weird because we're really only reaching out to people who've already giving us name, number, and email most of the time. Right? So this was good for me for two reasons. One, I think it taught me what I think is true even for you is sometimes you just really need a real forcing function. You need a real reason. I gotta pay my rent. Right? I can only buy the $10 Papa John's carryout pizza. That's when I can for eat it for lunch and for dinner because I got nothing. I'm alone. Okay? So, some sometimes I just think we need, like, higher stakes to go out there and do the thing that feels unsavory. The second thing, which hopefully makes you feel better is the the level of follow-up right now. If you feel some parties like, oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. You will get better at this. If you just, like, get in reps over time, this does just get easier. Like, I didn't sell anything the first probably week and a half. And then ultimately, like, even this, I got pretty good at. And I will also say, just because it's amusing, it doesn't have anything to do with anything. My boss, who is dating her boss, which is super sketchy from an HR perspective, they had a little sales tip I'll pass on to you. They used to they befriend the local ice cream man. They'd go in the local ice cream man's truck, and they take bumps of special k. They go and they come out and they try to sell. So, I'm not recommending you do that. And it but now it's very interesting because in 2026, it's the, now it's ketamine. It's the preferred substance in the halls of power of Silicon Valley in Brooklyn. So, not suggesting that, but, follow me on LinkedIn for sales steps. Okay. Let's move on. Okay. So, alright. Now here's the okay. I I I really built it up. I'm finally gonna tell you the most important thing I can tell you today. This is the thing that I you've gotta do this week if you want more leads and more clients. And I will tell you, through an overall parable, a famous sales parable called acres of diamonds. So imagine it's old timey days and you have a farmer named farmer Mark, and farmer Mark is is selling his rutabaga and making money selling a rutabaga. He's making an okay living, but it turns out he discovers that his region is full of diamonds. There's diamonds all over the area, and he's getting green with envy because his farmer friends are selling their farms, and they are they they're taking the proceeds from their big exits, and they are investing in diamond mines and diamond startups, and they're getting rich. So farmer Mark thinks to himself, well, if there's diamonds all over this region, I wanna get on diamonds. I'm out. Bye bye farm. So he sells his farm to hapless boob. We'll call him Boob Mark. So he sells the farm to Boob Mark, and he takes his proceeds, and he's investing in diamond mines and diamond startups. The timing is not on his side, sadly. So, he he he loses all his money, and he dies destitute and just covered in chlamydia. But then meanwhile, back on the farm, Budmark, who sold the farm to, is like looking around the the the lands and the acres, and he keeps noticing there are these shiny rocks. I purchased this farm, and all over this farm as I'm looking carefully, I keep finding these shiny rocks. Yada yada yada, very overwrought way of saying, we spend too much time going after new leads and not just making offers to the people that already know us and like us and trust us. Now I'm gonna tell you exactly what to do here. I would be remiss if I did not mention that this is part of the things that I do when people, work with either of these services. I will write all this stuff for you and copy paste it. But if you wanna do it on your own, I'm gonna tell you exactly how to do it. And I wanna tell you there's two principles we must honor here. The first is people don't buy when we're ready. They buy when they're ready. So what does that mean? Well, it means it's not the irresistible offer, the $100,000,000 offer. It's not your compelling copy. People buy because you just made them the offer at a time when it made sense for them. And, typically, that's because something happened in their life. Their best friend from college got diagnosed with cancer, and thank God they caught it early. They're gonna be okay, but it it leaves them shook. Or they or their parents had a health scare, or they had a a uncomfortable experience in a dressing room, or or trying on those jeans that everybody seems to have in the back of the closet. Okay? So something happens in their life, we have to be there when they're ready because they're not gonna buy when we're ready. They buy when they're ready. This is particularly important when you're talking about fishing poles because remember, they weren't looking for a gem like you found them. However, a corollary of this is if people can buy whenever, they buy never. So we need some kind of reason for them to take action. Again, I'm not suggesting intense discounts. I'm not saying give away the house to show your profitability. I'm just saying we have to give them some reason mentally to couple with their own internal reason that now is the time to finally take action on this thing that I've been considering. So here's what this looks like. Please write this down. For your never been clients, so everybody for which you have name, number, and email that is not a current client or a former client, they're what I call a never been client. They've never been a client. So if you've expressed interest on every four to six weeks, I'm gonna hit you with a different offer. Every four to six weeks. If you are a former client, I'll do every two to three months a little bit long and and I wanna give you a different messaging because one, you did break up with me. Right? So don't be weird. Don't be like, oh, I wanna we've broken up. It's not the right fit. Okay. Cool. And then, like, three weeks later, you're like, you wanna get back together? Right? Like, no. They broke up with you. That's fine. But they probably didn't leave the the gym screaming, saying they hate you. Right? So I do think we wanna make them offers regularly, and you have a different relationship with them. Okay? So typically, the offers, the the communicate the messaging are gonna be a little bit different. Now when you do these offers religiously as I suggest you do, I like to do a five day window. To be honest, I I get a little more complicated when I do it. I think Nuance can make this more effective, but just keeping it simple for you. Do a five day window. Why five days? It's long enough that it can pierce the veil of their crazy lives, but it's not so long becomes noise. Then when we market, we gotta market multichannel outreach. So I'm almost always gonna do two to three email broadcasts and one to two text broadcast to all my never been clients. And time pending, myself or my team will do individual calls, emails, text messages, maybe even DMs, particularly to formally engage never been clients that we engaged with, but didn't come all the way in to do the thing. Okay? Once again, you gotta have urgency and or scarce. I get I guess you don't have to, but if people can do it whenever, they do it never. So I usually want a deadline and or I wanna cap the capacity. We're looking for five local men and women that want benefit, benefit, benefit. We have a new program, get started in a couple weeks, and registration ends on Tuesday. Would you like to hear more? So, anyway, a lot I could say about that. Again, happy, you know, I know some people on this call. By the way, uniform society members, I'm begging of you just use mine. Okay? But if you wanna do it on your own, that is how to do it. Okay. Let's talk about this hellscape. Oh, boy. What's going on with meta, everyone? Well, I have my my theories, but I, I'll leave it aside for now. But first, I wanna show you dark math. So this is from a friend of mine, Will Matheson. He is a digital marketer that works with our kind of business. Wills tells me that this is a, you know, bog standard small group gym in the Northeast that has controlled for offer and follow-up execution. Okay? Because this isn't that anything changed with the gym. This is these results really changed. Those are some rough numbers over there, and I think we're seeing this across the business. So when I told you about why I think gyms might get knocked out, it's because for a lot of people have relied so heavily on meta. They've atrophied these other important skills, which I'm endeavoring to push you into doing today. And there listen. There was a time where you could just rely on meta. Those days are gone. You know, we used to say in 2023, like, oh, I wish it was 2017. Well, guess what? It's 2026. Now we're saying, oh, I wish it was 2023. Right? And, again, we're seeing this kind of across the entire industry. So does that mean we need to get off meta? Probably not, but there's a few things to appreciate. First, it still works, but it requires better copy and creative and and probably higher volume. Okay? So in a lot of markets, there used to be less competition. The markets were less mature. It's harder to get people to engage with these now. And that that's the issue. Right? Because not only is cost per lead gone up, but throughput has gone down. So the cost to acquire the client, that's those two things. Right? It's gone way, way, way up. And Andromeda, particularly the new meta ads manager, seems to just burn through ads. Like, very quick, it worse from it, it stops working. So this is why you really need volume. That's the platform that I'm involved with that we use for leads engine. I think allows you to just quickly go through this. Though, again, a reputable vendor will do the same. So whether you're doing it or a vendor will do it, you can't rely on just okay copy and you need volume to constantly be monitoring and constantly changing, usually a few times per week. You also need more sophisticated layers in some markets. Now you don't wanna do this unless you have to because it's annoying and complicated. But one of the things that is true is if you're in a market and you just hammer, buy my thing, buy my thing, sign up for free intro, sign up for free intro. You know, there's not unlimited number of people in your market. At certain point, they'll have seen the things and you can get, you know, sometimes shock them out of their blindness with different copy and creative, but sometimes you just need to do different stuff. And sometimes it makes sense to have a seasoning top of funnel layer so named because it's the the first thing people see is maybe you send them to some content or some testimonials, then maybe you do an offer, then maybe retarget again if they that doesn't convert with a testimonial and an offer. Okay? So can I be very clear? I don't recommend that if you can avoid it because that's annoying. That's a lot of work, but sometimes that's you know, life is unfair, friends. Also the conversion execution has always mattered, and now it is it is life or death. You always benefited from calling right away. You always benefited from lots of follow-up and multichannel follow-up. This is now no longer, something you can get away with half hearted follow-up. It's just too hard. It's too expensive to get the lead. It's too hard to convert them. You have to call them right away. You have to follow-up a ton in the first couple of days. In addition, you just have to accept, like, it's not $20.17. It's not $20.23. It's going to be more expensive in most, and I gotta be real with you. Not all. I'm afraid to say that. This is the hardest part of my job. Can I can I can I confess? Can we be friends here? The hardest part of my job is I've talked in these, like, generalities and, like, it's not general. So I'm afraid to say this because it works for almost all of you, but our ads are not that good or our conversion is not that good. But I gotta be real. I think there's some markets where if you do the math, it doesn't work anymore. But in almost all markets, it will work. You just have to expect it's gonna be more expensive, and I'm not gonna get the volume of members I used to be able to get. So we gotta do the other stuff. Well, lucky for you, friend does. Now we're gonna talk about the other stuff. So, just to orient you, we talked about digital homes, cold lead follow-up, meta ads. We got two more things to do. Okay? So this is a picture of my daughter, on the right and her best friend, Amaya. Friends. Life is better with friends. So a lot of you are getting word-of-mouth already. That's fantastic. There's two kinds of referral offers I think we need. A fishing net and a fishing pole. So the fishing net really matters that all of your clients know there is an always available evergreen referral offer that if a client brings in a friend, okay, or if I should say if a prospect asks your client, like, hey. What about your gym? Are you liking it? They know if my friend asks, then I say this. There's an easy and obvious way for the friend to start. What we're about to experiment with my gym in New Jersey, it's why I get the you know, talk to somebody, it's like actually doing it right now, is we're gonna start experiment with the two week free offer, which is a big fat offer, but I don't care. It's my client's friends. I get my client's friend in. Think about this. In some markets, you're spending 1,500, $2,000 for a client off meta, and that client's not gonna be a sticky. They're not gonna be sold as the client's friend. I'll do anything to get my client's friends in here. So I wanna make it easy. So this is more generous. I haven't run it yet. So full disclosure, this is a test I'm running next week based off a couple of friends of mine. They're having a lot of success with it. But I want all my clients to know if you have a friend that is a fit, two free weeks. And then importantly, there's a thank you for the client. Now I don't think money necessarily incentivizes anybody to do anything that they weren't gonna do. But one, I think it's important to codify thank you is that people grow your business. You don't acknowledge it. Just feels kinda bad. Right? You ever done that? I've done that. I got a loud mouth. I've done that. And I I kinda noticed because when I'm enthusiastic, I can I can drive a business? I can I can get a business to get, you know, some money from me, like, believing in it? And it just feels bad if no one's ever like, hey. Thank you so much for doing this. Okay? And while money doesn't incentivize it, I don't know. My my thoughts are evolving here a little bit again. Brand new hot off the barbie. I don't know. Give them $500. Who cares? If you're spending $2,000 for a not as good meta client, who cares? Like, even clients with money people will say that a lot, and I've said that too. They're like, people don't care about money. If it's a premium price product, they don't care about money. I think they might notice $500. And then, again, I'm not offering that prescriptive. I'm not saying literally do that. I'm just saying that we really wanna honor that they did that. And, again, I wanna note the existence this is important. Listen in. Listen in. The existence of referral offer alone is not gonna drive things. Right? So you do have to ask if, like, point of sale. I like to ask if you do one on one goal review sessions. I think you can ask there. But, typically, if you really wanna shake the lead fruit from the lead tree, now you're dealing with referral phishing poles. So this is a time sensitive referral offer. This is a phishing pole because now there's a reason they need to act now that's not always available. So an example might be free month for client friend. So if you usually do two free weeks, maybe twice per year, you do a free month or four free weeks. Right? I love doing this around the holidays. You can give people free month to give to a friend. I like to do this. We get, like, nice black metal cards that we give them, so it feels hefty. But may I tell you how people always mess this up? Because I'm in people people always mess this up, but I'm gonna help you. You're you're not gonna mess this up because I I'm gonna help you. You need a claim by and a start by date, or it's not time sensitive. Because when they can do it whenever, they do it never. Right? A lot of people give out the metal card. You have to have a claim by and a start by date. Right? And sometimes people have, like, a claim by date, but then the prospect is like, I'll start in fall of twenty twenty nine. And you're like, well, I'd like to do that, but at that point, we might all be meat slaves followed around by an AI enabled drone that's following us with a syringe full of anthrax to make us meat puppets because it's gonna be another two years before they master dexterity. I hope I'm kidding. Okay. Moving on there. So that's one thing, I think bring a buddy weeks can work great if, you're not doing a two free week anyway. This, you know, this might not work if you have that big offer, which I'm gonna play with. But even so, I think even if you did, there might be some to be said for this is the two weeks where you bring in your friends and everybody's bringing their friends. Right? Again, the key thing is you don't have to have this be like this over the top reason that's, like, so so so compelling. You're just saying, hey. Everybody's gonna bring in their friends the next two weeks. This is a great time to bring in your friends. Give to get contest can work great if you have a larger facility. Typically, I wanna see, like, 200 members or more because it's a lot of capacity, a lot of work. But you can incentivize your clients to do things like collab on Instagram, tag you in posts, give a Google review, bring in leads, bring in trials, and then you can award points. And then you can give away prizes based on points or do a raffle. And if you do the math, if you have a big enough gym and you've got the capacity to run this for a few weeks, this can be really worth it. Again, you gotta go back to the cost to acquire a client. Getting a client's friend is valuable to you. Don't we we can afford to spend money so you can give away. And I've seen gyms. This was an old orange theory play back in the way back in the day. Right? You give away, like, a flat screen and a grill and a Yeti cooler. You can also you can also give away free services and offers from local business partners, which we like, because that's gonna knit you to this next strategy I'll talk about in one second. And then finally, although it is historically thought of as a retention play, and I think that's correct, community events, we should appreciate our way to drive weeds. Again, a lot of beef for you people on here. A lot of you heard the tales of Mike Brand as a stoic yogi, Banana Brand is what that guy does. I'm not as good at it. So mine is not as good. But if you have a community event and you tell your clients, hey. If you bring your friends to our barbecue, happy hour, mud run, holiday party, they can enter to win a chance to win a free month. Right? And then that's great. That way you get name, number, and email, and now you can start talking to them forever. One of them gets a free month. Everybody gets a time sensitive second prize offer, which is some other thing, maybe two free weeks or a discounted version of your typical low barrier offer. K. That is ending referrals. Just out of curiosity, can anybody recognize this? Go in the chat box, please. I've seen people are proponents of my ketamine suggestion. Okay. Oh, Rocky, close close Bruce. That Bruce, you get December 2. What what is this? Quickly, what movie is this? Oh, boy. You know this. Over the top of Bruce, you're so close. He's firing all phasers. He's not over the top. Predator. Steve Bergeron, you get a gold star. I take comfort in a bitterly divided world that we can all agree that this is the zenith of Western art. Okay. So let's be beefy like Arnold and Carl here. Let's be beefy and talk about these business partnerships. So, this is brand new, hot off the presses. This is the last section, by the way. You're doing fantastic. We're about to go to q and a. But these are some new things I've learned in the past six weeks. So I think this is why it's annoying to be me. I think this actually might be wrong in the marketing book. I apologize. But this is an important thing to check out here, because there's some new updates here. Okay? So the thing that I've known for a long time is volume equals success. I always say if you do a 100 outbound to local businesses, three to five will turn into a good partner. And you might think like, what? That's crazy. 100? Once again, life is unfair. By the way, I don't have actual data on that at all. That feels direction correct. I could be wrong. But whenever I say that, people that do a lot of this stuff are like, yeah. That that sounds right. But I'm gonna tell you, it actually doesn't need to be that hard to reach out to a 100 small businesses. And in 2026, you can have Claude scrape you a Google Sheet. Have Claude scrape every local business within a three to five mile radius, scrape the website, phone number, email, address, and and then have Claude organize it in tranches of 50 at a time. So you prioritize, prioritizing for proximity, similar avatar, and a front desk slash retail. Okay? So you will have, hopefully, at least a few 100 businesses. Now many of them, you won't be able to get the email online because a lot of businesses don't have email on their websites because I don't know why. Making it hard to do business with you. So what I did was I had my assistant reach out, like, 50 people at a time. But, honestly, we probably could have Claude do as a probably just too dumb to know how to do it yet. Probably, that's coming in ten seconds. But, essentially, Joy reached out to all these people, and then I just have to respond if they raise their hands, think their interest. So I like emails because they're efficient, but admittedly, they're not as effective. You can also do phone calls. Walk ins, you can do, though. You could spend a lot of time in a car, so that gets a little harder to do. But, ultimately, if you do this at scale and you're willing to follow-up a couple of times, you can really get a lot of local business partnerships. Now you might be asking, but, Mark, how do I make people respond? Well, my friend Macafore always says, you gotta give them your heart before you ask for their hand. Lead with value. Tell them you'll make them money. Okay? So Unicorn Society people, you're on here. I want you it's we have in the playbook. I just updated copy paste, use mine. If you're not in Unicorn Society, I'm gonna tell you what to do. It's not rocket science. You want it the the opening should be something like, hello, name of business owner. My name is name. I own x and x fitness. We're a locally owned small business, and I have x many, clients that are coming several times to week, and we have, you know, 4,000 email addresses. Then in bold italics, this is important, I'd love to have a conversation to talk about how we can collaborate, and I can get my clients and audience in front of your business. Right? Like, I wanna drive your business. Right? And, again, we're not being, you know, disingenuous. I think the rest of it you could acknowledge. And, of course, we could talk about how you can work with us too. But we're being on their agenda first. Okay? So once you've done that, I think this is another thing that's new. I used to say this wrong. Sorry. Like, Steve Bergeron, old days on the call, and you say it wrong. I used to be like, have a list of the things you'll ask for. Have a list of no. Stupid, Mark. Dom. It it's hard. It's 2026. The robots are coming. We do not have time. So in fact, I think these days, you need to tell them, here's what I can do for you, and here's what I want. So when you get on this call and, again, I do these calls. So, again, I do these regularly. Talk about them first. Right? Be polite. Don't be a bad lover. Right? Talked about them first. And then usually, I'm gonna offer them maybe two or three ways that can get in front of my clients. Like, we can do a raffle where we give off a free something of your services to get them in front of you. This way, you collect name, number, and emails. You can give away to one person, and then there's other people that you can make offers to. Well, this is synchronous because that's what I'm gonna ask for. So I'm always gonna ask for two things. Can I leave a plastic lead box at your front desk with an enter to win a free month of personal training offer? And can I send two emails to all your emails with the same offer? Submit your name, number, and email to enter to win a free month. Now I'll ask for that. I'll usually not do both. I usually won't want that. Some people don't have a front desk. You can put up a post with a QR code. It doesn't seem to work. It's fine to do. It it can't hurt, but I don't ever seen that work for whatever reason. And when we do these, usually, we're gonna get five to 50 people that have raised their hand that said, if price was no object, sure, I would do it. One person's gonna win. You're gonna give them a claim by and start by day when they win. Because when they can do it whenever, they do it never. And then everybody else gets the second place prize. So maybe they get two free weeks, maybe they get a discount of your of your whatever your low barrier front end offer is. That'll vary based on if you have five or 50 leads, but this is how you win over time. Right? And I gotta say, like, look, all of these things together, I hope you're you're seeing the full picture, which is there's no silver bullets in business. There's no silver bullets. There's a lot of lead bullets, but you also can't do all the things. So you have to be very clear and strategic about what you do, what you do next, and do them well. But none of these things are gonna lead to, like, 20 new members per month. Like, that's just not a thing in twenty to twenty six in most markets for most gyms. The final suggestion, this is probably obvious to you because you're smarter than me, but I am dumb. I didn't know this. Target franchisees. I'm a franchisee. And what I can tell you is, you know what the local coffee shop owner likes? They like espresso. You know what your local stretch lab owner likes? They like business and they like leads. K. So we're about to go to q and a. Last thing here really quickly. I would say write this down. If I was the type person that said write this down. Time on task over time beats talent. Attribution is Gary Keller. The one thing time on task over time beats talent. If you spend thirty minutes per week on business growth activities, I would not expect your gym to grow. I'm not saying literally do what you see on the slide, which is a fifteen hours of marketing per week. I'm not saying literally these are the things you do for how long each day, but you could do a lot worse. Right? And I realize I get it. Some of your time poor. You're on the floor thirty five hours a week. I get it. So maybe you can't do fifteen, but you might need to sleep less for three to six months. Because the final good news, I gotta tell you everybody, is if you've struggled with this stuff, this stuff is solvable. It's harder in some markets. Gotta be real with you. Some markets are not as good. Right? Sometimes the service and product is not as good as it needs to be. That's gonna impact things too, obviously. But, ultimately, this isn't rocket science. Right? And if you do the right things diligently and the right amount of things, because again, time spent on business growth is the atomic growth of all business growth success. When you spend the right amount of time and you're working on the right things in the right order, which sometimes good to have an outside person point you in the right direction, you will win over time. And if you're doing this for two years and you're still grinding and you're not seeing the growth you want, you are a very good person. I promise you something is wrong. I don't know what it is because I don't know you, but that would be a good time to make sure you talk to somebody else because there are solutions in today's day and age. I'll say briefly here before we open up the q and a and answer any questions we have. Just as a reminder, see how I model what I teach. You got that exploding coupon as, our previous we had a salesperson, Mark Fisher Fitness for a long time. It was a drag drag queen and a Broadway star, and he would say, I got exploding coupons for you, girl. So, there's absolutely no pressure. My, information is up there. I'm always happy to help you informally, so please don't I wanna be friends. Don't be a stranger. And in the event you're interested in formal stuff, if you book a call by end of day Friday Saturday, it doesn't need to be done by Saturday. It needs to be booked, and you tell them that you love DAX go exercise, and that's how you found out, I will make sure they know to give you a free month, with no long term commitment. Okay? That's my stuff. I'm gonna pull up there. I'm gonna kick it over, invite Mike to come be a part of the chat here. And let's see. I'm happy to sort of scroll through here too. It's cool, Mike. Maybe I'll just, like, dig in here and just start answering some of these questions. Yeah. Go for it. Yeah. Mhmm. K. So Bree asks, what would be some examples of limited time promo for a facility that is ninety five percent one on one? Yep. Got it. Okay. So Brie, it sounds wait. Brie Larson, are you captain Marvel? Are you captain Marvel? Is captain Marvel on this call? You got sure you get asked that a lot, Bree. Okay. So this this makes sense. So it sounds like you're mostly one on one. You have some small group, but it's only once per day, but it's a little tricky for you because some of these offers won't work. Yep. That's absolutely right. Where we shine is with training, rehab, nutrition coaching, like the full enchilada. Yeah. That that's correct, Bree. So I think in that situation, if you have a slightly different model, you do have to make slightly different offers. So I don't know necessarily that it I think listen. Depending on the volume of leads you want, if something free is always gonna outperform something worth a dollar times a zillion. That's not to say that you always need to do that. Right? If you're having enough leads, sometimes you wanna, like, turn the spigot down a little bit because there's too many leads. They're not high enough quality, and there will always be a correlation between quality and quantity. If you have a higher price service, sometimes you don't want a 100 free leads per month because it's not even useful for you because throughput is so low. Okay? So typically, you wanna figure, okay, what is part what can you do to give people directionally a sample of the services you offer, that is a low enough bar that you get them going, but doesn't bleed you out. I think another way to think about this is if you wanna have it be paid, I still think usually it's gotta be less than a $100 if you want them to buy on their own. Now I think more than that, you can do what I sometimes call the premium priced front end offer, like transformation program, quote, unquote, high ticket, though that term I'm always like, I don't high ticket's weird. Anyone says, like, high ticket, I'm like, I don't know. We might not be aligned. With respect. Respect. Usually, then you're selling the the book of free intro. You're selling the call. And listen, I don't know that people are smart. Right? They're not thinking like, oh, this is a valuable free high pressure sales conversation. Right? But I think you can still say correctly, like, book a free intro. Sometimes you need to sell them more of the thing. The trick of book a free intro is, again, sometimes people know, oh, it's, like, kind of a presuming I'm interested in a sales thing. But the reality is I often think about when I think about offers, you know, sometimes people are like, I want workouts. Do you have workouts? Can I try the workouts? And with one on one, Bri, it is harder to scale. So usually with one on one, I'm not gonna recommend a free thing. It might be and this depends on your price point and your avatar and how premium position you are. But, you know, two, three sessions for $99 with, like, a free intro, something like that. Anyway, I'd I'd be happy to advise more. I might need more details about the business. So let me just see what other questions we have. And if I have time, if you wanna add more, I could see if I can add some more stuff here. Riley asks brand new small group personal training busier. What is your best advice? We are two months in. Oh, that's hard, Riley. Everything I said, unfortunately. That's that's Everything I said is what I recommend doing. I think the key thing is work systematically. I think my best advice also is, like, another thing I should have said that I'd say out loud, we also offer, like, free thirty minute calls, which are truly not sales calls. If you if you want a sales call, you can book a demo call. That's different. But if you wanna hop on the phone for thirty minutes with someone on our team, we could talk you through stuff. I mean, I think one of the best things is is generally doing what you're doing, which is try to learn. If I were to give you one other all purpose, it's probably the last thing I said, which is track how much time you're spending each day per week on growing the business if that's your most important goal right now, and make sure that's happening. And then if you don't know what to do with that time, then it's good to circle back around to resources like this and maybe have a conversation to know what to do. Emma says we have a CrossFit gym. We've always offered free trial. Should we no longer offer free trial? We're looking at very, very small town. It depends, Emma. If it's working for you, don't change it. I should have said that in the beginning. Oh, I messed it up. I hope no one left. If what you're doing is working, don't change anything. So if, Emma, you're getting the right amount of read flow and you're happy with throughput, I think a free offer can totally work. I know gym owners succeeding with free offers, with low barrier offers, with premium price front end offers. So, I would say there's no reason to change it, but based on results, sometimes. Pamela asked, do you have thoughts on companies like ClassPass that offer plans for their clients to come to your gym for discount rate for lead generation? I don't typically like it. I don't see it usually work. New York is a weird market. New York from day one, I was like, I don't want this. I got a unicorn cult. I I need cult members. And New York is funny too because New York, everyone's like, oh, you're getting married? You're not even 50. You should be out there dating around, like, slutting it up and living your life. You're not even 50 yet. Like, New York, everyone is so not wanting to commit to anything. So I don't know. I don't think it's wrong. Again, I have a couple clients that have done okay with it, but you really need dialed in system. And in my experience, I unfortunately, just doesn't again, you have to look at the results. If you find you have a good system for converting, I think it could work, but that doesn't always happen. D asks, what are real estate conversion benchmarks for an established crossfit boutique gym, in a vacuum for lead to new member. I think 25% is best in class, but usually won't do that if you have heavy outbound because the throughput's gonna be lower. They're colder. I think some markets, you're gonna accept 10 to 15%. I think if it's below 10, usually, we need to look at something. So, again, if you look at total leads per month and new members, that's the number we're shooting for. Or I think we're gonna be are we gonna get kicked out of here in one second, Mike? I know that thing says 10. Should we say goodbye? Yeah. I think we might be ending in 321. So, Thank I. can send you some more questions from the chat, Mark, and, if you wanna. follow-up. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't mind at all. And, also, I don't need to I know we might need to pop now, Mike, but I I can take, like, two more questions if that's okay. I could try to. bang some of these out. think we're like the recording live, might be over. so, Okay. Great. we're not we're you. all are listening, go. if you have two more minutes, I'm gonna be concise, which is not my typical so you might know this is not normal for me. Okay. Kamal asked, just open rock climbing gym. Struggling with creating a clear what are the results from joining us since we're niche activity. Mostly offer fun and community. Yeah. I think fun and community could be okay. This is a bigger topic. You're right. Because with the rock climbing gym, it's not like fat loss. Right? It is kind of like fun, but there probably is. If I would ask, like, why is that important to come out, we might be able to dig a little bit deeper. Again, I don't have time for the full framework, but if you email me market business unicorns dot com and anybody listening, I'll I'm happy to do this. I'll send you a link to a talk I gave on avatars and how I think about benefits because oftentimes people say they wanna benefit, but it's like the instrumental benefits, like a feature. It's like, I want accountability. I want motivation. I want pain free workouts. They're like, no. You don't. Nobody if you you don't want those things, you want them because you think that's what will get you to your goal. Then there's, like, a tangible benefit, which is like fat loss, feel better, more energy. And that's good, but really they want that because underneath that, there's a functional benefit. How does their life change? Because now I have more energy to play with my kids. I feel more confident at work. I feel, whatever. Right? And then I think there's a fourth layer, which is the emotional benefit, which is how I'm gonna feel that is different. So that's a high level of that framework, Kamal. I think if you played with that, you might be able to, dial in on, okay, what are the other tangible things? But you're right. A rock climbing gym, it's a little bit different than a typical fitness product. And I think that's okay. And I think you're probably going the right way. And, ultimately, mark is another word for test. One other framework for everybody listening, you want to use the words the prospect is using in their heads before they go to sleep. We win when we relentlessly talk about what the prospect cares about in the words they use. Great. Nate asks, personal training clients are great right now. We need membership based focused recovery from COVID effect as well as class attendance and interest. I get everyone is looking for more members clients. Any specifics on the class recruitment? They I might need a little bit more. If I'm understanding, it sounds like personal training is great, but people aren't interested in classes. I don't think I have anything different for class recruitment. I would say this. It is often tricky to have when you ride two horses, they often both get away. It can be hard to offer multiple services a lot of times. I typically I think personal training classes are different enough that I think it usually is okay. It's usually about finding the people that want that kind of service. And, again, hard for me to I probably would have more questions. I'm sad to say if I could advise more. But I think as a principle, we usually wanna have, like, one main service we're offering, and then the other functions as an upsell or a downsell. But probably we wanna be legendary for one thing. The trick oftentimes of having another service is the market is confused. They just don't know what you do. Right? They think, like, they don't think of you as doing multiple things. So, anyway, that's maybe some direction, Nate. I I think part of it might even be figuring out, okay, if you're all in as the personal training is what you're legendary for, you know, how do you drive volume that'll drive people to down sell? Though it's easier to drive volume for more affordable product, but, again, it kinda depends on your avatar, your market. So, anyway, happy to, connect more if I can ever help. Jennifer says we tend to do heavy meta with a kids youth program. On our premium private side, we've done the evergreen referral, the two fifty credit. Word-of-mouth has been our best. Like it? Do you recommend keeping the business in these types of boxes, quantity one side, quality on other? It's not wrong. And, again, Jennifer, it's hard to say. Again, I I know I'm, sound like I'm, like, hopping out here. But, because if what you're doing is working, you should always keep doing what you're working. I'll reiterate everything I said, ignore it. If what you're doing is working, keep doing it. Now I understand probably what you're saying is, like, even if it's working, do you think I should test doing something else? And I don't I don't think necessarily I mean, it goes back to I think what I was just saying with Nate. You're kind of running two businesses with two different avatars. And although that's confusing and complex and usually doesn't scale to crazy heights, it can work really well if, you know, if you're not trying to have 10 units. Sometimes that could be the smartest play, particularly if you're in a geographic area that's not very dense. You could sell different service to different people. Sometimes that's actually the best way to grow even though, again, it's not what I would say in a vacuum. So, yeah, I don't think I would necessarily suggest you change that unless, you know, on the premium private side, if there's a world where you just want to test and say, okay. Well, what if we do some other kind of offer to drive more? But, again, it I'd have to know a little bit more. I'm sorry. I'm feeling a bad job team. I keep being, like, but I don't know enough. But that's some initial thoughts. I think that might be it. Mike, is there any other burning things that you saw, or do we think we got them all? Now I think we got all the ones that came through. So, I do wanna tell everyone we will be sending out the on demand link for this, webinar in the next, few hours. So if you wanna rewatch it or rewatch a portion, it'll be there, and then we'll also be sharing that, across our socials. So, more to come on that. Mark, I do wanna say thank you so much for your time today. I learned a few new things as a, you know, ten year gym owner veteran. Okay. Wow. Honor. Honored. So, Woah. Thank you, Mike. yeah, you did a great job. Thank you. I hope everybody got a ton of value out of today's call. We'll be back next month with the with the new webinar, so look out for those invites. And, Mark, any parting words? No. I just wanna, thank you, Mike, and thank, DASCO exercise this opportunity. Thank all of you that were here, came live. I appreciate you a lot. Just wanna say, yeah, I love doing gym business stuff. I know I talk about formal stuff, but we can be friends informally. Please email me hard. I love doing what I'm doing. If I can help any of you in any way at all, I'm grateful for what you're doing in the world. I'd it'd be an honor to be helpful in any way I can. And if nothing else, have other friends doing this thing we all love. Thank you much. Alright. Thank you all. Have a great day. Bye.